tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post8104302495334310234..comments2023-10-11T09:22:33.136-04:00Comments on Paperback Writer: VW#2: Editing and Revising That Won't Drive You CrazyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-47019847393456725362007-07-16T10:31:00.000-04:002007-07-16T10:31:00.000-04:00Anders wrote: Isn't it a bit wasteful to do the co...Anders wrote: <I>Isn't it a bit wasteful to do the copyediting immediately after finishing the day's writing? Maybe you don't cut as much as I do, but many of the mistakes I would be fixing with such an immediately-after-writing pass, I end up slicing out as part of a larger section of prose, anyway.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't edit the new material until about six to eight hours after I write it, so I don't have that problem. I always take the afternoon as a break to do housework and spend time with my kids. <BR/><BR/>Everyone is different, though, and some writers are able to shift directly from writing to editing mode without a hitch.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-21547877240147756332007-07-16T10:28:00.000-04:002007-07-16T10:28:00.000-04:00laubaineworld wrote: Do you ever notice areas in y...laubaineworld wrote: <I>Do you ever notice areas in your first draft which need to be fleshed out? Minor character direction within scene, scene descrptions, etc?</I><BR/><BR/>My two main weaknesses -- description and emotion -- almost always need fleshing out. Sometimes my dialogue, which is the only thing I write that I don't plan out in advance -- needs trimming, because I love to write it, and have a tendency to ramble on and on with it past the point of effectiveness in the scene.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-57342045683653066442007-07-16T10:16:00.000-04:002007-07-16T10:16:00.000-04:00Perpetualbeginner wrote: How do you know when you'...Perpetualbeginner wrote: <I>How do you know when you're done?</I><BR/><BR/>My natural inclination is to be dissatisfied with everything I write, no matter how great it turns out, and I would keep editing it forever if I didn't set up some ground rules for myself. That's why I'm so strict with myself about the one daily edit and the three-part final edit. If I can't get the problems solved during those four stages, I still have to turn it in. <BR/><BR/>I hate the rules, but thanks to them, I've never turned in a manuscript that I felt was poorly edited.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-4529261082792191052007-07-16T10:10:00.000-04:002007-07-16T10:10:00.000-04:00D wrote: What do you do if you find, during an ed...D wrote: <I> What do you do if you find, during an edit or random moment of clarity, that you've missed something major in a scene? Do you stop, go back into writer mode, and edit/add?</I><BR/><BR/>I never backtrack. I have had revelation moments like that, and I tag them in the manuscript for the final edit, and change the story as I write it from that point on (see my response to Rachel's comment <A HREF="http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2007/07/vw2-editing-and-revising-that-wont.html#comment-8359013957554882427" REL="nofollow">here</A>.)the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-48801407441485438392007-07-16T10:06:00.000-04:002007-07-16T10:06:00.000-04:00Margaret wrote: My question is how do you get that...Margaret wrote: <I>My question is how do you get that distance? You take a few days off, I take a few years off, and I still sink into the manuscript. I'm hoping that's because the story's that good ;), but I'd love some tips on achieving distance.</I><BR/><BR/>I think it's a combination of mindset and objectives. I tend to compartmentalize everything, even my own personality, so Lynn the writer lives in a different place in my head than Lynn the editor, quilter, painter, seamstress, mother, partner, daughter, blogger, etc.<BR/><BR/>The mindset of me the writer is to create, build, entwine and progress the prose. It's all I want to think about when I'm tackling the WIP. When I'm done writing for the day, I send the writer back to her internal studio to take a nap, and shift into mother mode. In the evening, I take the internal editor (leashed) to the WIP. My mindset switches from pure creation to tailoring what's been done. The internal editor isn't interesting in constructing something new, she wants to tailor what's already been made so that it fits better. (I know not everyone sews, but writing is so much like sewing for me personally that the mindset is almost identical.)<BR/><BR/>The writer always wants to come out when the internal editor is working. Likewise the internal editor wants to jump in on the writer whenever she's creating. Those two sides of my personality don't get along at all, though (the writer thinks the editor is a heartless bitch, and the editor thinks the writer is a daydreaming ninny), so I have to keep them segregated.<BR/><BR/>If you don't suffer from multiple personality disorder like I do, then try the switch on a smaller scale. Write a short piece of new material -- poem, story, whatever -- in the morning, or your ideal writing time. Focus only on creation tasks. Put it aside, and go back and edit it a few hours later. While editing, focus only on polishing what you've done. Repeat this exercise until you feel more confident in your self-discipline, and then try to tackle a larger project.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-83921923638853708622007-07-16T09:47:00.000-04:002007-07-16T09:47:00.000-04:00Ris wrote: Do you use beta readers at all before s...Ris wrote: <I>Do you use beta readers at all before shipping off a finished ms?</I><BR/><BR/>I used to, but I have a high volume of output, and it was unfair to dump all those manuscript on the beta readers I trusted. Flying solo has been good for me, it's made me focus more on my editing and revising because I don't have beta readers as a safety net anymore.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-76174070169802014122007-07-15T20:47:00.000-04:002007-07-15T20:47:00.000-04:00Isn't it a bit wasteful to do the copyediting imme...Isn't it a bit wasteful to do the copyediting immediately after finishing the day's writing? Maybe you don't cut as much as I do, but many of the mistakes I would be fixing with such an immediately-after-writing pass, I end up slicing out as part of a larger section of prose, anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-1371956786462323062007-07-13T00:50:00.000-04:002007-07-13T00:50:00.000-04:00JulieB wrote: PBW, do you have any advice for thos...JulieB wrote: <I>PBW, do you have any advice for those of us still struggling with spotting typos? I know that I _must_ print it out, I can never catch them all on screen. I've heard the suggestion that one should read backwrds from the bottom to the top. Have you ever tried this? Do you have any other suggestions?</I><BR/><BR/>I've tried the backwards bottom-to-top trick, but it didn't improve my proofreading much. I am the world's worst speller, and I have grammar issues (see, internal editor, I didn't mention that person from my schooldays who GAVE me grammar hives.)<BR/><BR/>I write with my voice via VRS, and the Dragon often catches about half of my common spelling and grammar mistakes. I've also tried using a text-to-speech reader, which reads something you write back to you, and that helped. <BR/><BR/><I>Also: do you save your daily work as separate files, or do you just add on to the bottom of the previous stuff.</I><BR/><BR/>I save my work every day in two separate files: the first draft and the daily edited version (I keep the first draft in case I've deleted something during the edit that I need to look at again in the future.) I don't combine everything until I've finished writing the book. <BR/><BR/><I>I'm always looking for practical ways to make MS Word a better tool. I know you use DSN. Does that create it's on word processing page, or do you do the daily revisions in something else?</I><BR/><BR/>I use the Dragon's pad for almost all my writing, and cut-n-paste what I do into Word after I'm finished writing or editing. I can use the VRS in Word, but it acts a little wonky.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-11231322674635099242007-07-13T00:36:00.000-04:002007-07-13T00:36:00.000-04:00Buffysquirrel wrote: My internal editor won't be s...Buffysquirrel wrote: <I>My internal editor won't be silenced. How on earth do you do it? It nags away at how useless I am until I'm paralysed with doubt.</I><BR/><BR/>I had this one book my internal editor was sure I couldn't write. It was in a new genre. Experienced pros had already told me I didn't have the voice for it. The research involved went far beyond the scope of anything I'd done. So did the cast of characters and the plot. I let the internal editor hammer me for weeks about it, and then I just decided to write it anyway. Whenever that voice started nagging, I agreed with it -- it was probably going to be a big steaming pile of manure -- and kept writing anyway. If it turned out to be a disaster, at least I gave it my best shot.<BR/><BR/>That novel was <I>Blade Dancer</I>. :)<BR/><BR/>The internal editor is a good thing. We can't assume every word we write is gold. But we also can't assume every word we write is manure. The internal editor has to give the writer equal time on the page.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-40564055109753325762007-07-12T22:56:00.000-04:002007-07-12T22:56:00.000-04:00So many good posts this week, so little time in my...So many good posts this week, so little time in my schedule. *sigh* Throwing my name in again.Julie Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14331303987066184507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-56124893045933676512007-07-12T20:16:00.000-04:002007-07-12T20:16:00.000-04:00Rob wrote: I can't leave a scene until it's pretty...Rob wrote: <I>I can't leave a scene until it's pretty much ready for the printing press, so when I finish my "first" draft of a book it's as clean as I can possibly make it. And that first draft is actually SEVERAL drafts.</I><BR/><BR/>Good point -- some writers manage to collaborate well with the internal editor, and they become writing partners versus adversaries.<BR/><BR/>I'm laughing as I type this -- not at you, Rob, but at the thought of my internal editor as my writing partner. She'd talk me out of a writing career in a week, tops. :)the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-56874747489001250772007-07-12T20:12:00.000-04:002007-07-12T20:12:00.000-04:00Rob wrote: Any tips on how to gag that internal ed...Rob wrote: <I>Any tips on how to gag that internal editor during the first draft?</I><BR/><BR/>I'd throw him a bone every now and then by letting him do a little editing on the WIP. The main reason I do a daily edit is to gratify my internal editor, so she shuts up and leaves me alone while I'm writing. <BR/><BR/><I>Let me tell you, he is a persistent bugger.</I><BR/><BR/>He should meet mine. No, wait, they'd probably spawn and overrun publishing with evil nasty little critters....the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-9530076042346125752007-07-12T20:10:00.000-04:002007-07-12T20:10:00.000-04:00Amanda wrote: My question is what if half way thro...Amanda wrote: <I>My question is what if half way through your plot on the first draft you realize your word count is going to be low. Would you go back and revise the first part or keep going to the end and then revise?</I><BR/><BR/>I would keep going to the end and then revise, for two reasons: You get a better perspective for adding more to a story if the manuscript is complete, and you can't really total your wordcount until you finish the novel (it may increase dramatically with future chapters, or you may discover something you need to add to the beginning of the book while writing the rest of it.)the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-83129618395995722772007-07-12T18:12:00.000-04:002007-07-12T18:12:00.000-04:00Do you ever notice areas in your first draft which...Do you ever notice areas in your first draft which need to be fleshed out? Minor character direction within scene, scene descrptions, etc?<BR/><BR/>SianaUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714585527073488064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-33679645620272378802007-07-12T18:09:00.000-04:002007-07-12T18:09:00.000-04:00How do you know when you're done?After much strugg...How do you know when you're done?<BR/><BR/>After much struggle, I've managed to turn my IE off for first drafts (otherwise I would have none, instead of three). However, once loosed, it seems to never be satisfied. My IE can always think of one more change that would make the story so much better (or halfway decent). My alpha readers said the first draft was good. My beta readers think the second draft is even better, but at the rate I'm going I'll be down to omega readers before I can shut my IE up long enough to send the thing out to agents. So how do you know when to stop?Perpetual Beginnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09625596315528064536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-20868163295971597022007-07-12T16:23:00.000-04:002007-07-12T16:23:00.000-04:00I can't silence my IE completely. Knowing there's ...I can't silence my IE completely. Knowing there's a lot of muck in the files will only block me. But I've threatened him with the rack and some flogging often enough by now that he only gives me useful advice and doesn't make me tamper with a scene for a month. <BR/><BR/>Just well he isn't into kinky. ;)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-10781278398006176302007-07-12T15:57:00.000-04:002007-07-12T15:57:00.000-04:00Just throwing my name in the hat! tWarner419@aol.c...Just throwing my name in the hat! tWarner419@aol.comtetewahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04287233499993365048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-57421666484531166852007-07-12T15:12:00.000-04:002007-07-12T15:12:00.000-04:00Throwing my name in the hat. :)Throwing my name in the hat. :)Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535976976779865138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-83626131689042356262007-07-12T14:59:00.000-04:002007-07-12T14:59:00.000-04:00Great post! Please throw my name in the hat.Great post! Please throw my name in the hat.Cherie Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16767627787231269781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-56246529485211353332007-07-12T12:20:00.000-04:002007-07-12T12:20:00.000-04:00Adele Dawn said:I'm looking for some way of silenc...Adele Dawn said:<BR/>I'm looking for some way of silencing the "You'll never be good enough to be published, why bother?" gremlin. I hate the little bugger, but he's terribly persistent.<BR/><BR/>I use plasma guns. I find them very effective for the 'doubt demons.' Mmmmmmm...plasma.Rowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14732264471007486923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-86955211616330638512007-07-12T11:25:00.000-04:002007-07-12T11:25:00.000-04:00Jessica D. Russell wrote: When I write, I go back ...Jessica D. Russell wrote: <I>When I write, I go back and reread the entire thing over and over. Usually this is b/c I'm afraid I screwed up a plot a point or want to make sure I haven't lost the dialogue. How do you keep yourself from doing that? I have a vivid, but flexible outline and I still miss tiny things here and there. What do you recommend to keep me on track without losing it in my paranoia?</I><BR/><BR/>I think we're all afraid that we're going to miss something while we're writing, so those feelings are natural. You already know what you're doing to feed that fear, too: when you write, you go back and reread over and over. <BR/><BR/>Think of backtracking, rereading and looking for problems when you write like this: you get ready to leave your house, and then you go back inside to make sure you turned off the coffee maker. Once is fine. Twenty times is not.<BR/><BR/>If this has been your writing habit for any length of time, it's going to be tough to break. Here's an idea of how to wean yourself off backtracking and rereading -- write for a day as you always do, but every time you backtrack, make a mark on a notepad. At the end of your writing time, count how many times you backtracked. The next day, make a committment to cut down the number of times you backtrack in half, so that if you reread twenty times on the first day, you are only allowed to reread ten times the second day. Repeat this cutting-in-half method every day until you've trained yourself to go back only once.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-31189210645481985612007-07-12T11:06:00.000-04:002007-07-12T11:06:00.000-04:00Personally, i ADORE editing, although i am not a w...Personally, i ADORE editing, although i am not a writer. I would probably feel differently if i had just poured my heart out onto a page and then had to have someone pick it apart. but it is a necessary evil, and i like to be that evil. the hardest thing about being an editor is finding spots where you think the author could do it differently, then you realize "well that's how I would write it, but that's not the AUTHOR'S voice." that's the tough one, trying to help the author along, but not change his/her unique style. <BR/><BR/>Anyways, i love editing. it's what i love. and i love to read. and i love the Darkyn. and PBW's blog rocks. -Maria :)Maria Shainkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00181275834637108516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-63254807885810390152007-07-12T10:15:00.000-04:002007-07-12T10:15:00.000-04:00Jess wrote: What does editing in a "professional o...Jess wrote: <I>What does editing in a "professional objective way" look like? Being really hard on it?</I><BR/><BR/>It's hard to describe. You know when you look in the mirror and you clearly see and admit to yourself that you need a hair cut, and to lose ten pounds, and that red is not a great color on you with your skin tone, and you take action to change those things, that's the same as being professional and objective with your manuscript.<BR/><BR/>If you stand in front of the mirror and feel unattractive but you don't know why, or you see the too-long hair and love handles but you've got great excuses for them, then you're probably too emotional to be objective.<BR/><BR/>The big indicator is "But..." As in "But I haven't had time for a haircut and it doesn't look too bad" or "But I can't lose weight and still have fun during the Christmas holidays" or "But Mom says I look fabulous in red!" You'll find you do the same thing with the manscript: "But my protagonist is tired so he shouldn't have to do anything but sit around in this chapter..."<BR/><BR/><I>Suppose you reread at the end of the night and the IE says "this isn't what the story needed at all!" Do you ever give up all the day's pages and start fresh the next day?</I><BR/><BR/>No, which is why I never edit new material for content, only for the technical blips. If there is something that is a big huge honking obvious disaster, or needs to be changed for the rest of the book, I flag it (see my comment to Rachel above) and move on, incorporating the change into the new material I write from there. <BR/><BR/><I>Leave it to me to wedge in plot questions instead.</I><BR/><BR/>Hey, plot happens. :) I believe I've got a plotting workshop lined up for tomorrow.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-83590139575548824272007-07-12T10:03:00.000-04:002007-07-12T10:03:00.000-04:00leatherdykeuk wrote: Your method is fairly similar...leatherdykeuk wrote: <I>Your method is fairly similar to mine, so what I'd like to know is what you do when want to add something in chapter 38 that wasn't in your original storyboard - something you just thought of that you suddenly can't do without. Do you ignore it, or go back and insert the changes that make the subplot -- or whatever -- work?</I><BR/><BR/>While I'm writing, I flag the change in the draft like this:<BR/><BR/>[***Change Marcia's job from librarian to social worker]<BR/><BR/>From that point on in the manuscript I incorporate the change, so Marcia is a social worker for the rest of the book. When I perform the final edit and hit that flag, I then go back and change all the references to Marcia being a librarian. <BR/><BR/>The flag is great as an edit marker for me because I know everything preceding it has to be checked and revised accordingly, but nothing after it does.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-55558771696689333832007-07-12T09:59:00.000-04:002007-07-12T09:59:00.000-04:00Ashlyn wrote: How long do you get to edit a novel,...Ashlyn wrote: <I>How long do you get to edit a novel, on average? And what length of time would you prefer for editing?</I><BR/><BR/>Depending on the project, I usually give myself five to ten days to perform the final edit. That's really my comfort time zone for a thorough edit. I never take that time for granted, though. If the schedule changes, and the editor needs the book sooner, I may only get 48 hours.the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220786472896283714noreply@blogger.com