tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post2324320173556866226..comments2023-10-11T09:22:33.136-04:00Comments on Paperback Writer: Fun with DrosteUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-13691183065578464582010-01-31T09:52:11.692-05:002010-01-31T09:52:11.692-05:00Brilliant analogy! Like fractals :)Brilliant analogy! Like fractals :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-8363338285163978702010-01-28T23:25:14.816-05:002010-01-28T23:25:14.816-05:00Sounds like Diana Gabaldon's technique which s...Sounds like Diana Gabaldon's technique which she calls Elided POV would fall under this category. See <a href="http://community.compuserve.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ws-books&tid=50933" rel="nofollow">this forum discussion</a>. She uses it quite a bit, and successfully in my opinion.<br /><br>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04307513673164087354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-7406996580932241002010-01-28T23:05:15.974-05:002010-01-28T23:05:15.974-05:00Since I spent much of my teens in the Netherlands,...Since I spent much of my teens in the Netherlands, I am quite familiar with Droste's cocoa, though I didn't know that its distinctive tin lent its name to the recursive image effect. <br /><br />Actually, the image that most prominently comes to mind as an illustration of the Droste effect is a French Impressionist painting I saw in an art book my parents had. Unfortunately, I don't know the name of the artist without looking it up in the book, but it is a self portrait, showing the artist from behind. He is aboard a boat, hunched over his canvas painting a self-portrait, showing the artist from behind, hunched over his canvas... I always loved the cleverness of that painting.<br /><br />Regarding literary Drostes, I have used newspaper articles in the past as well as the more traditional one character revealing dark secret backstory to another in dialogue, which can easily be a bit clumsy. In my current WIP, I use newspapers again, a bunch of forty year old newspapers where hidden among the real headlines of the summer of 1967 (I had a lot of fun looking those up, particularly as a few real life news stories of the time fit the themes of the story astonishingly well) is the fictional crime that is an important part of one character's backstory. I later on use a letter to give a pretty good hint at what really happened. I was considering to leave it open, but both the character (the son of the main suspect) and the readers deserved some resolution.<br /><br />This post has also given me an idea how to resolve an inelegant backstory dump problem in a novel that I have been stalled on for quite some time now. The problem is largely due to the fact that it's first person, so I either need to have the narrator thinking about the backstory or retelling it to another character.Cora Buhlerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03868233120931184399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-39648780213983331132010-01-28T18:34:58.991-05:002010-01-28T18:34:58.991-05:00I used this technique in a paranormal novella (Whi...I used this technique in a paranormal novella (<i>Whiskey Tango Foxtrot</i>) recently. The story opens with a single journal entry written by the original owner of a haunted house. Later in the story, the protagonists find the journal, which tells the tale of how the house became haunted. One entry is missing -- the one that serves as the prologue to the book. This means the readers know something the protags don't know for a few chapters. <br /><br />Eventually the protags find the missing entry, and it gives them the clue they need to thwart the Big Bad and save the day.<br /><br />I got the idea from Stephen King's story, "Jerusalem's Lot," which is a prequel to his more famous novel, <i>'Salem's Lot,</i>, and is told entirely through letters and journal entries. Most readers of the short story already know the village of 'Salem's Lot is infected with vampires because they have read the novel, which is what gave me the idea of using a missing entry as a prologue.<br /><br />I love this device. I hope I get a chance to use it again.Selah Marchhttp://selahmarch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-79833380678616089932010-01-28T18:29:27.759-05:002010-01-28T18:29:27.759-05:00the recursive also occurs in films and paintings.
...the recursive also occurs in films and paintings.<br /><br />stories within stories are very BorgesEeleen Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221723342556515161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-49731276267603432982010-01-28T17:49:36.546-05:002010-01-28T17:49:36.546-05:00Thanks for a really interesting post. I hadn't...Thanks for a really interesting post. I hadn't realised that effect had a name.<br /><br />I love the sheep and signs ideas! They're so lovely. What nice young men (we hope).<br /><br />I must agree with Kristin, the series get a lot of stick but I do think Stephenie Meyer did brilliantly with that because, as Kristin says, not only do the names imply much more than *could* be written. It also means we don't have to read through four months of "Woe is me" which I think is *brilliant*.<br /><br />The ever-repeating image thing reminded me of something from a Terry Pratchett novel about how, with two mirrors facing each other you also have an infinite loop. Apparently, according to Discworld lore, if you stand between two mirrors you start to lose your soul...Amethyst Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10771473170184731480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-83865567617047928682010-01-28T13:24:55.780-05:002010-01-28T13:24:55.780-05:00I'm not sure, but I think I've see this in...I'm not sure, but I think I've see this in book excellently done, hence I didn't really notice it, until I read your post and it reminded me of the book...Tana French's Likeness. <br /><br />Her use of language is pretty awesome.Rashda Khanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803134396969891096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-89959271134383366162010-01-28T12:29:20.497-05:002010-01-28T12:29:20.497-05:00Ahh, interesting. Now I'm thinking of new way...Ahh, interesting. Now I'm thinking of new ways to tell backstory. My current WIP has a lot of it, after all, and so far I've got character recitation, news sources, scientific reports, and a few other things. I've been wanting to include some hand-written artifacts but haven't found a good way to incorporate them.<br /><br />And I agree with your New Moon example. People like to rag on that series a lot, and while I do agree with most of the criticisms, occasionally Stephenie Meyer had a flash of brilliance or luck, and the use of months was one of them. The lack of words on those pages said much more than pages and pages of reflection on her depression could have. It's a strategy I don't think a lot of authors have realized yet.Kristin Laughtinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01536556357622503501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-55158640337901537652010-01-28T11:49:18.206-05:002010-01-28T11:49:18.206-05:00Jess & nightsmusic - there is a play within a ...Jess & nightsmusic - there is a play within a play in Hamlet too, where Hamlet stages a play that mimics the murder of his father.<br /><br />The blue heart sign story reminds me of something that happened in my area:<br /><br />This guy lived on a hillside that was right next to a freeway (101 near San Jose, CA). He cut out several sheep from plywood, painted them, and wrote messages for his girl on them. After a while, he proposed! (The sheep announced, after this, "she said yes!")<br /><br />Well, after she agreed to marry him, the sheep were retired. I guess there was no further purpose for them... until one day they reappeared. These messages were somewhat cryptic, things like "do a little dance." After several weeks of obscure messages, the sheep told us that the couple was going to have a baby!<br /><br />I miss the sheep, though. They haven't been around in quite some time.Nicolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415819230337026236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-50471074085315106322010-01-28T10:49:04.771-05:002010-01-28T10:49:04.771-05:00Jess, it's Midsummer Night's Dream and the...Jess, it's Midsummer Night's Dream and the play within is Pyramus and Thisbe. I directed that as a one act in high school which is why I remember it so well.<br /><br />Lynn, I LOVE this post! In one of my stories, I have a found diary. In another, I have a short dream, but I felt a bit guilty about using it because I see the proverbial "don't do this" so often, don't use dreams, don't have a prologue, don't have an epilogue, don't have an epilogue with babies, don't, don't, don't, until I almost don't want to work on my story because it contains <i>something,</i> that's supposed to be a no-no.<br /><br />And I too want to know about the blue hearts if you ever find out!nightsmusichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05984119792540771870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-1494009462482351722010-01-28T09:27:17.673-05:002010-01-28T09:27:17.673-05:00Excellent post, once again. I wonder what happened...Excellent post, once again. I wonder what happened with the sign fella and the lady. That's a really neat thing that he did.Tracy Sharp - Author of the Leah Ryan Serieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12239533451929739327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-4316867177413218972010-01-28T07:35:11.210-05:002010-01-28T07:35:11.210-05:00Shawna, that's awesome. :)
you always get my ...Shawna, that's awesome. :)<br /><br />you always get my thinking, PBW! I love the love sign story, of course. <br /><br />this is kinda like hamlet, right? (was it hamlet?) the play within the play?Jesshttp://www.jessicatudor.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-46401919382112365732010-01-28T07:06:23.501-05:002010-01-28T07:06:23.501-05:00So that's what it is called! ( I'm often i...So that's what it is called! ( I'm often illiterate.)<br />Thank you very much!<br /> Am in the process of outlining a novelella/novel where I plan to do that...so it's lovely to know the mechanics have a name.<br />I remember another chocolate maker who used the same technique (Ganongs?)- the chocolate box had a picture of a girl holding a chocolate box with a picture of a girl holding a chocolate box... From that I understood (in a dim, 8-year old way) infinity.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8343238.post-49770248078379268152010-01-28T02:24:53.151-05:002010-01-28T02:24:53.151-05:00Oh sheesh - curiosity would have gotten to me by n...Oh sheesh - curiosity would have gotten to me by now and I'd have stopped and asked! (Well, maybe not. But I'd have seriously considered it.)<br /><br />That sounds like a real-life version of that country song, where the guy has a message on his machine for the girl who left. I think it's called Austin? <br /><br />My kidlets did Nano last fall. One of them surprised me with random news or advertisement interruptions every so often in the story. Since they were sometimes related and sometimes totally irrelevant, it was amusing and occasionally enlightening. <br /><br />I turned it into a learning experience and explained the idea of the 4th wall... but I was rather promptly informed that he'd done it not out of any higher purpose, but because he'd run out of things to say!Shawnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15511854435352811924noreply@blogger.com